DANCE TOPICS 

Transcript from an Online Conversation with Merce Cunningham

Compiled by Richard Finkelstein (rfinkels@msn.com) from a Prodigy event on Wed. Nov. 15, 1995
(placed online: March 3, 2007)

Introduction by Artslynx founder, Richard Finkelstein

Everyone associated with the world of dance is aware of the astonishing record of innovation by Merce Cunningham. This is reflected not only in his work directly as a dancer and choreographer, but also in the use of technology in service to the art.  It is no wonder that he was also a great pioneer in Cyberspace!

At the dawn of the internet. Before such things as Google and MSN, Amazon, and the like, there was a truly visionary network, Prodigy.  Mind you this was before the World-Wide-Web as we know it.  I was one of the early users of Prodigy from a time when it was not yet a national service.

In these early days I can remember my excitement in learning that Prodigy had invited Merce Cunningham to have a real-time conversation with members of its still small cyber-community. I was teaching at the time at the University of Colorado's (Boulder) Department of Theatre and Dance, so I set up our new computer lab to serve as a hub by which our dance students could witness and participate in this extraordinary event.

Being aware of the historical nature of the electronic "conversation" I made a record of all that transpired online. I bet in fact that my record is the only thing that survives of it.  Now after nearly a dozen years it is time to share a bit of this extraordinary event with the dance world at large. Enjoy!   RF

SYSTEM Greeter

You are now in Auditorium "Merce Cunningham". You have READ/WRITE access. You may ask up to 7 questions, until this auditorium reaches its maximum of 1000 questions.

Moderator (Speaker)

"Merce Cunningham reinvented dance, and then waited for the audience...The elegance, simplicity, and force of his work are unique--and undeniable... He has taught us something new and powerful about how to dance and how to live, and about the diversity of art in America." -- Mikhail Baryshnikov

Moderator (Speaker)

We're live in New York City with the great Merce Cunningham. We're chatting tonight with Mr. Cunningham about his career in dance and much more. Please submit your questions to our guest now...

Merce Cunningham (Speaker)

I'm delighted to be here this evening, at the @cafe. The sense that one has here of activity that is really going all over the world. You're not only going all over the world, you're staying home with friends at the same time.

Ellis R (PRODIGY Member)

Merce, after all your years and experiences, I was wondering if you could give us your definition of what dance is.

Merce Cunningham (Speaker)

Dance is moving about. Whether it's doing tap dancing in the ktchen with my tap dance teacher... or it's moving about across the global village. The advantage of this World-wide Net is that you get all over the world and you don't have to tour.

 KANNIBAL 9 (PRODIGY Member)

what's your favorite dance

Merce Cunningham (Speaker)

The kind I do. <g>

Ellis R (PRODIGY Member)

Merce, how do you see computers and dance coming together? When did you realize that the two could mix so well?

 Merce Cunningham (Speaker)

About twenty years ago, I saw an experimental video with stick figures moving, and I realized then that that's where dance notation should go: into technology. I think that dance and visual technology are mated. The problem is that for dancers to have access to the technology. 

Ellis R (PRODIGY Member)

What's been the greatest day of your career so far? Why was it so special?

 Merce Cunningham (Speaker)

Today! Because I'm here with friends and it's a lively situation and we are dealing with technologal behavior in a way which could never be done before. We're not relying on the past -- we are active in the moment we're in!

 Somber sky (PRODIGY Member)

how long have you been dancing 

Merce Cunningham (Speaker)

Since I was two. 

Ellis R (PRODIGY Member)

Can you tell us a little bit about some of the things you are working on right now? 

Merce Cunningham (Speaker)

At the moment I'm working on a dance with my company. We spent all afternoon rehearsing it. It's a new dance, which we will present in Jan. during a tour in Texas. And I have also worked out part of the movements that are being utilized on the dance computer (LifeForms) that I've used now for several years. 

Ellis R (PRODIGY Member)

What has been the biggest challenge you've faced over the years as a choreographer? 

Merce Cunningham (Speaker)

To keep going... To get up every day and do it all over again. 

danz16 (PRODIGY Member)

What direction do you see dance heading in the 21st century? 

Merce Cunningham (Speaker)

I think diversity... I think that's one of the interesting things bout dance, that it's diversifying. It's not a single thing, but a multiplicity... That's the kind of world we live in. 

Lionpro (PRODIGY Member)

How does your dance style interest the 4 and 5 year olds in the small local studios around the country? 

Merce Cunningham (Speaker)

I think they would be very interested in the dance computer. And I think they'd be able to understand it much faster than I do...<g> 

Lionpro (PRODIGY Member)

Where did you begin dancing ? 

Merce Cunningham (Speaker)

In Centralia, Washington. That's the town I grew up in. And I studied tap dancing and exhibition ballroom dancing. 

Moderator (Speaker)

From 1939 until 1945, Merce Cunningham was a soloist in the company of Martha Graham.... 

Ellis R (PRODIGY Member)

As someone who has devoted an entire career to dance, I was wondering if you could tell us what it is about dance that has inspired you so much over the years? 

Merce Cunningham (Speaker)

It remains just as fascinating and just as unknown to me now, as it did when I began. And so I can get up each day with the possiblity that I can discover something that I didn't know before. 

ABobick (PRODIGY Member)

My name is Aaron Bobick and I'm a professor at the MIT Media Lab. My first "question" is simple to congratulate the entire MC foundation in causing this event to happen. 

Merce Cunningham (Speaker)

Thank you! We're enjoying it too. 

Lionpro (PRODIGY Member)

Where was your first paying job as a dancer, and how did you get it? 

Merce Cunningham (Speaker)

Five dollars as an exhibition ballroom dancer ... and I was about fifteen. 

somber sky (PRODIGY Member)

what type of dance do you enjoy the most 

Merce Cunningham (Speaker)

I think a dance that is free of intention... 

Ellis R (PRODIGY Member)

Do you have family members who are actively involved in dance? 

Merce Cunningham (Speaker)

No...they're all lawyers! 

ABobick (PRODIGY Member)

My real question is this: In what ways will the communication technologies (such as the Web) bring dance into the lives of those who may not experience it now. 

Merce Cunningham (Speaker)

In the sense that the Net is like an enormous enlargement of an encyclopedia on every level. In terms of all areas...you can get information on us, for example, about our dance company...and that seems to me to be a way for people to get information. We can begin to see how in a great many countries, dance is a very important part of the social life. And the use of the Web can bring this out... 

Lionpro (PRODIGY Member)

Where was your first paying job as a choreographer, and how did you get it? 

Merce Cunningham (Speaker)

Oh dear, that's difficult! <g> I can't remember, only because when I made dances, I simply made them. Nobody forced me to do it, and nobody forced me not to do it. I don't think the question of money entered my mind...<g> 

Lionpro (PRODIGY Member)

Talk about your the use of the computer in your choreography !! 

Merce Cunningham (Speaker)

I use the Lifeforms program as a tool to further my experience with movement. Because, on it, one can see things in the way that, for example, one often sees a photograph of someone doing a movement that one has never seen before...so that if the camera caught it, that means it's possible. That's the way that I use Lifeforms. It can provoke ways of moving that are not yet part of my experience. You have to keep looking... 

danz16 (PRODIGY Member)

How do you see the use of virtual reality impacting the field of dance? 

Merce Cunningham (Speaker)

I haven't had enough experience with Virtual Reality to speak about it...but it will have an effect on dance; in what way, I don't know. 

richardfink (PRODIGY Member)

After using Lifeforms for a while now, what do you find are its dis-advantages and advantages. 

Merce Cunningham (Speaker)

The advantages for me, is what it shows that I don't know about. The disadvantages are when I make mistakes in using it, and mangle it... 

richardfink (PRODIGY Member)

Do the current congressional and NEA woes affect your company's work directly? 

Merce Cunningham (Speaker)

Oh yes...of course, like for all dance companies, it is a problem...a serious problem. But don't stop; don't let politicians put you down. 

Sad Samy (PRODIGY Member)

Who have been some of the big influences (both in and out of dance) in your life? 

Merce Cunningham (Speaker)

Well, I think the first one was my tap dance teacher Mrs. Barrett. That was probably the first one. I was fortunate to go to a profressional school of the arts run my a remarkable woman, Ms. Nellie Cormisa. Her idea about if you were interested in being involved in any art: visual or performance, you should study and learn about all of them. At the same time, the classes were professional, in the sense that you worked at things. 

Merce Cunningham (Speaker)

At the school, I met John Cage, with whom I worked for many years. His agility of mind and his invention and his constant sense of humor was a marvelous spark. But there have been many other people...Buckminister Fuller, for example, at Black Mountain College. 

Irinka (PRODIGY Member)

How long can an amateur continue to have ballet workouts when said amateur has recurring knee pain? 

Merce Cunningham (Speaker)

I suggest a thorough doctor's examination... 

Cap'n Typo 1 (PRODIGY Member)

Merce, this is Michael Dec. I am a great fan of John Cage, and wonder if you've found another composer to work with nearly as closely since his death. 

Merce Cunningham (Speaker)

No, I've worked with a number of different composers. Recently, David Tudor, Takeahisa Kosugi, Stewart Dempster, Emmanuel De Melo Pimento. I will soon be working with Trimkin. 

Cap'n Typo 1 (PRODIGY Member)

I would also like your opinion on Samuel Beckett,,,,, for no reason. 

Merce Cunningham (Speaker)

For no reason at all... I like him and his work very much. 

Arne (PRODIGY Member)

Years ago I wrote you a letter to attempt "Night of the Living Dead" as ballet. I wonder what you thought. 

Merce Cunningham (Speaker)

I didn't answer, so whoever you are should know what I thought. 

mjov (PRODIGY Member)

Merce, Tom Watson from @NY--Is there any relationship between the way dance communicates ideas to people and the way computers allow for quick communication? 

Merce Cunningham (Speaker)

I think so, but I don't think yet I would know how to explain it. I think the main thing is that it lies in the visual possibilities. 

OntheEDGE1 (PRODIGY Member)

What gave you the idea to make a web site out of it? 

Merce Cunningham (Speaker)

It wasn't my idea...it was Michael Bloom's, I think.

zzzza (PRODIGY Member)

When did you get "online"?

Merce Cunningham (Speaker)

Tonight? <g>

bonsaiman (PRODIGY Member)

Do you still keep in touch with some of the art world figures from the 50's and 60's that I remember reading about your collaborating with (I hope my memory is accurate on this !) Like Jasper Johns, et al ?

Merce Cunningham (Speaker)

Yes. We remain friends.

gplew (PRODIGY Member)

Do you notice dance audiences getting older? Younger?

Merce Cunningham (Speaker)

They seem to be getting younger...

danz16 (PRODIGY Member)

Who do you see as the "up and coming" stars in dance today?

Merce Cunningham (Speaker)

It's difficult to answer, because I don't "see" much dance. Not out of lack of interest, but lack of time.

ABobick (PRODIGY Member)

You've pioneered the use of computers in/with/for dance. What three thongs do you wish computers could do that they can't do now (and ask for the moon)?

Merce Cunningham (Speaker)

The dance computer is limited in what it can do, that's true. But every program put into it is useful. So rather than being discontented with what it doesn't have, I'm very pleased with what it does have.

richardfink (PRODIGY Member)

How has your choreographic process changed and evolved since your early work

Merce Cunningham (Speaker)

On the level of complexity. Like this! <g>

Sad Samy (PRODIGY Member)

Can you give us your memories of working as a soloist for Martha Graham?

Merce Cunningham (Speaker)

I don't keep track of my memories, so have few or almost none.

zzzza (PRODIGY Member)

I have heard your name connected with "chance composition". What exactly is that?

Merce Cunningham (Speaker)

It is the use of chance operations in the process of choreography. It can be used in numerous ways. My main interests in using it is to further the possiblity of discovery.

zzzza (PRODIGY Member)

I recently stopped performing (musically). Do you still perform? If not, do you miss it?

Merce Cunningham (Speaker)

I still appear. The stage is home to me. So I like to keep treading on it when I can.

zzzza (PRODIGY Member)

Did you sustain any injuries throughout the course of you career?

Merce Cunningham (Speaker)

Oh, multiple! Constant.

GumbyJr (PRODIGY Member)

Do you find it easy to generate a dance using new computer programs? What new programs do you use? Do you use the program lifeforms?

Merce Cunningham (Speaker)

Yes, I find it useful to work with the figures and make movements on it, which might at first seem impossible, but then in trying the movements out, one finds out something else. So rather than saying, "No, I can't do that," I say, "Yes, I'll try it."

Playful Baby (PRODIGY Member)

When I have to choreograph for my class, I have the worst time thinking. What helps you to create?

Merce Cunningham (Speaker)

Don't think! Get your mind out of the way!

Moderator (Speaker)

If you missed part of tonight's chat, you'll be able to see it in full in just a day or two. Simply JUMP: chat transcripts. Please tell your friends who may have missed tonight's session.

bonsaiman (PRODIGY Member)

Speaking of chance composition, have you used the computer to generate random movements ?

Merce Cunningham (Speaker)

Of course! The Lifeforms figures can be used in many ways, and one of them is by using chance composition.

GumbyJr (PRODIGY Member)

Do you feel that dance is becoming too "unnatural?" For example, people are using new steps just because they look neat, yet they might be harmful to the body.

Merce Cunningham (Speaker)

If you do something long enough, it becomes natural.

Merce Cunningham (Speaker)

Look at rock dancing, when they first did it, everyone thought it was unnatural!

Cap'n Typo 1 (PRODIGY Member)

Merce, are you in touch with Nam June Paik?

Merce Cunningham (Speaker)

Yes, on occasion, I see him, and always with pleasure.

Sad Samy (PRODIGY Member)

What's the best piece of advice anyone has ever given you? How much did it cost to get it <g>?

Merce Cunningham (Speaker)

It didn't cost anything, and it consists of two words: Pay Attention.

Playful Baby (PRODIGY Member)

Do you still get jitters when you perform? After 10 years of performing, I still get them.

Merce Cunningham (Speaker)

I think we all do. But the only thing to do, is go ahead and do it.

Moderator (Speaker)

Our thanks to Merce Cunningham for joining us online tonight. This chat has really been a treat for us. Please come back and visit again with us at any time. We've really enjoyed it!

Merce Cunningham (Speaker)

Thank you all very much. It has been an interesting experience to have global conversations. I look forward to the next time.

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